Strange Fire?

Some of you evangelicals  may know about the conference "Strange Fire" that John MacArthur had last week.  MacArthur is a well known reformation author/pastor. He basically wrote a book and had this conference to combat problems he sees in the Charismatic/Pentecostal world.  MacArthur is Calvinist and a Cessationist- which means he believes that visions, revelations, voices from heaven, messages from the spirit world...,dreams, speaking in tongues...,trips to heaven, anointings, miracles, are all lies, all false, all deception." (some of these things I wonder a bit about)  MacArthur believes that the Gifts ended at the end of the Apostolic Age, around 100 AD.  He has been very critical over the years of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement.    SO he is not a part of that movement but yet he feels the need to bring correction to it.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nakedpastor/2013/10/john-macarthur-sends-500000000-charismatics-to-hell/  

God in Hell” (by nakedpastor David Hayward)

 

 

 

 

Read the above blog, it's a good discussion on this. 

 

 

 

Here is the whole conference if you are interested.....   http://www.preteristglobal.com/?p=718

 

 

I have listened to most of Joni Eareckson Tada's session.                              

 http://www.preteristglobal.com/?p=718          She was injured in a diving accident years ago and paralyzed.  She talks about her journey.  While I am compassionate towards her and encouraged by many of her writings......I do feel she is biblically wrong in believing and teaching that her accident was from God to her for the purpose of "growing her"

 

Now of all people in the world, I do believe that trials grow our faith.  I firmly believe that.  However I do not believe that God Himself preordained the trials nor do I believe He sends them.  I believe we live in a fallen world and LIFE happens.....  there is death, disease and accidents, sin, and sinful hearts.....   all those things together bring plenty of heartache to the world.  We don't' need God's help in having more heartache!   As in a famous Madea statement  "I can do bad all by myself"  Well the human race can do bad all by itself.....LOL

 

I also do not believe that the devil brings trials into our lives either for the most part (like 99.9% of the time)   Again the human race can do bad all by itself.....

 

Jon and I were talking about this....obviously ANYTHING to do with healing or suffering, is interesting to us as we walk the path we are on.  Just looking at our situation.....not even taking into account my little ones who were born disabled....let's just look at Selah's accident.....  if I were to go with the argument that Joni E Tada gives for her accident that "God caused/allowed/preordained it to bring her closer to Him"   How would that work with Selah?

 

I can see that Selah's accident caused Jon  & me to draw closer to God BUT would God cause/allow/preordain the accident to punish Selah or "draw her closer to Him?"  Selah had the understanding of an 18 month old prior to the accident......it's not like she had the intellectual capacity of an adult by any means. 

 

Did He cause the accident for Jon's and my growth....that is sick.  I guess if God was into the business of hurting people, He would have chosen Jon or myself to be in a coma, or injured so we could personally grow..... Obviously I do not believe God is like that. 

 

 Did He cause the accident for others to 'get saved"?   Some folks have suggested that to us....that God allowed the accident in order to draw people to Him......ok, that is just SICK!!!!!!   Jesus died on the cross to bring others to God.  He paid the price for the forgiveness of sin....He doesn't need to put a mentally delayed child into a coma in order to bring people to Him.  Selah did not have to pay some penalty of sin. 

 

We think and discuss things like this.  We are so careful NOT to try and come up with some type of doctrine JUST based on our situation but based on what the BIBLE teaches.  When you study the bible, you must study the bible in Context and you study by comparing scripture to scripture, using the whole bible, not just cherry picking out ONE verse to make a point.

 

 

Joni Eareckson Tada did have an experience in a "healing meeting"  that I can certainly relate to.   she was in a huge meeting, setting in the "handicapped section" (the real handicapped section- wheelchairs, canes, walkers)  and people were being "healed" in other sections and then the service was over, no one came to her section except to ask them to take turns on the elevator.....

 

We took Sam and Shad to a "healing meeting" and took them forward for prayer.   When I got to the minister, I turned the boys toward him and the guy almost peed his pants!!!!  It was even funny to me at the time.  Here were two little boys who were obviously in need of a miracle.  Shad is basically missing an eye and Sam is very obviously blind.....  These little guys were not like some of the folks who came forward for headaches, diabetes, even cancer....it was in your face.....

 

The preacher barely prayed for Sam who obviously needed more than just his eyes healed to be whole.  Then he prayed for Shad and told Shad to cover his good eye and asked him what he saw.  Shad said "nothing"  he thought it was a game or something.  Then the guy just left us.  He was totally overwhelmed, it's one thing to pray for someone's headache, it's quite another to pray for major obvious disabilities.  If we were to take all the kids NOW to a healing meeting, the guy would for sure pee in his pants LOL!!! 

 

Now I say all of that "tongue in cheek"  Personally I believe God can heal.  But I also believe that He choses to allow the natural laws to this world to prevail in our lives.  In other words, I believe God could cause someone to live for 500 years.....but because of the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve in the garden) natural laws of sin & death went into affect.  Now Jesus came to forgive us of sin, and give us eternal life.  So He freed us spiritually from the Fall....but physically we are still dealing with it.   

 

Anyhow getting back to the whole MacArthur/Strange Fire conference ......

 

I believe that someone who is not in our movement is pointing out some major issues within the movement.....

 

I am NOT a Cessationist by any means....I feel God has spoken to my heart before and I believe He has had some of his servants even give me a word from Him a couple of times that totally was for real.  I believe God can and still does "signs and wonders", I believe He still heals, I think I even still believe in speaking in tongues and of interpretation of tongues ....

 

HOWEVER.... I believe that many Pentecostals/Charismatics have very very faulty theology.  I believe that many would rather have a "word from God" than to get into the word of God!  I believe that many seek after signs & wonders & healers rather than seeking after Jesus.  Many would rather have a message in tongues, than have a doctrinally sound sermon.  Many want the excitement and thrill of hearing from God and some are so out there.....

 

Oh my....one day a friend and I went out to eat and the owner of the small place we went to started talking to us....oh but did she have stories....angels' visits, god's protection....story after story....BUT when she was asked where did she go to church....she told how she had a problem with this church and that church and this pastor and that pastor.....   Please know my eyes were rolling out of my head......    Often I see the P/C movement like that lady.....they want all the signs and stories but they don't want to have the disciplines in their life of healthy church attendance, tithing, submission to authority  (cause they are God's CHOSEN so they don't need to listen to a pastor) 

 

Then you have the crazy false NON biblical teachers who are in the Pentecostal/Charismatic camp.....  The Word of Faith "health and wealth gospel" Hagin, Copeland, Benny Hinn, Meyer, Joel Osten.... the list goes on and one....

 

 

So we almost end up having to have someone from the outside to come in and point out the excesses!   Because for some reason, pastors do not teach their folks enough sound doctrine so that their congregations can discern for themselves the false doctrine.   Many pastors do try and teach sound doctrine but unfortunately people often have itching ears and they'd rather hear how God will give them a new car and a new house (and I do believe in the blessing of God)   than how to walk  through valleys.

 

I think all churches have their strong points and have their weak points.  I think the P/C churches have the strong point of hearing a fresh word from God, livelily worship, inspiring messages....but can be  weak on sound doctrine, aren't strong in walking with folks through trials, and based on too much emotionism.  They also don't have a strong outreach to the poor, needy and sick - often the outreaches are done in order to "win" the person to God or the church, rather just reaching out to help and leaving the outcome in God's hands.  And don't let me get started on their response to orphans.......not much of one......

 

The mainline churches are generally strong in the "social gospel" area and basic doctrine.  They seem to be freer to reach out to others without trying to "win" them.  But often there is no inspiration, no personal  or practical application and not a big emphasis on living a holy sin free life. 

 

So I think we can all learn from each other.  No church or movement is perfect....no one's doctrine is perfect  (except mine LOL)   I feel if we believe in Jesus as Savior we are all brothers & sisters, even if I don't like you LOL! 

 

So MacArthur, who by the way, is the 5th cousin of  US General Douglas MacArthur, that might explain his militant way of slamming the P/C movement LOL!!!!!

 

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Ok sorry if this blog was boring to you......doctrine is very interesting to me.  I have a BA in Biblical studies and love to study and debate.   I appreciate my heritage in the Pentecostal movement but I am not blind to the problems we have.  but I love the movement, the freedom of the Spirit.  I have been in services where I felt God's presence in a special way.  I've heard messages in tongues and the interpretation of those tongues given that were from God.  I've been in large services where the whole congregation went silent before the Lord, even small children who were silent, as a message in tongues were given.   I've had a few dreams that I feel were directly from God.  I've felt "impressions" in my heart that I've felt was God's leading.  I've had a few "words" that I believe came from God....the woman in the mall was the most amazing...  I believe that God sent an angel to me in China to help me and Shad, I mean a real angel.....like from heaven above.....  I even believe I was in a service about 17 years ago where we heard angels singing.....   I was a bit overwhelmed by that!    I think these things are little glimpses of what lies ahead for us.....  but I think most of our walk with Christ is a walk by faith and not by what we see or feel......

 

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Everything is good here, everyone is doing good, no issues. Sarah's bumps are gone.  Selah is doing good.  I meant to take pictures today but we had a lot of folks to talk to after church and then it was time to go eat:) 

 

We are so excited about what God is doing in our church....it seems He maybe opening a new door of ministry  again.   The Spanish ministry is off and running.....We are getting the word out and excited for this opportunity to partner with a ministry that can meet the needs of our community. 

 

We do want to impact our community.  While we want to do everything without any ulterior  motives, we do want to see people come to know God and have peace in their lives.   We do love to see growth in our church as we can grow together and meet the needs of the community together.  It's a good thing to fellowship together and to have each other as friends to encourage each other in our walk with God. 

 

It's exciting to see what God is doing.