Tuesday, May 26, 2015

Duggar Scandal

So the Duggar sex scandal saga continues on.....

Since this blew up over the weekend, I was determined not to discuss it when I had my family to focus on but since it is still rolling, I will give my two cents.  It's like armpits, everyone has their opinions and most stink!

So Josh Duggar did some type of touching of some of his sisters and maybe someone from outside the family when he was 12-14 years old. OMG how did he escape the death penalty?

I don't want to make light of what he did.  It was a sin, it was wrong and I'm sorry that any girl had to experience it.   We don't know the actual details.  The copy of the police report I saw did not have details, I've heard that he may have touched a girl in her sleep but that's just something I read in a news article, not seen proof of it.  We don't know if in some of the cases there was mutual exploration going on and him being the boy and the oldest was the one blamed.   We don't know and frankly it's none of our business. 

First let me say in the USA we have a JUVENILE  system because we realize a 13 year old will not have the maturity or self control to make a decision as if he/she were 43 years old.....  we realize that juveniles are not fully mature in their mental reasoning abilities.  So while a juvenile may be punished for a crime, it most likely does not carry the ramifications of an adult's sentencing.   And I can positively guarantee that Josh Duggar did not meet the criteria for being labeled a pedophile in any of our 50 states no matter what idiot on the web is calling him. 

For over 13 years I worked within the juvenile justice system in Florida as a caseworker, then a probation officer and then a supervisor of all committed cases.  For over three years as a supervisor my unit had the majority of all sexual cases in our county.  I took classes to learn about sex offenders, one class made me so sick I had to go outside and throw up.  I started on my Master's in Criminal Justice....so I know a little about what I'm talking about. 

In Florida during the time I worked for DJJ, Duggar's case would have probably only been given probation, consisting of community hours and counseling.  I can't say for sure that would have been the outcome but since there was no clothes off or penetration that we know of, the State's Attorney would probably not gone after him for a harsh sentence.  I can only compare it to cases that I've personally been involved with and I can say for a certainty that that's about all that would have happened to him. 

Well I'll be darned....that's exactly what happened to him in Arkansas too.  His family sent him away to do manual labor with a friend who may have also been counseling him.  A lot of rehab programs have a core of manual labor involved in them.  We have a relative who is in a drug rehab program and he works on a farm during the day and goes to counseling and classes at night in the program. 

I don't' get the big outcry from the media and all these "caring folks"   The boy was caught and confessed to his family.  They removed him from the home, and went to the police.  The family can not help the fact that the police did nothing.  They probably did not know what to expect but for God's sake they took him to the police station and did a police report!   People can always second guess what they would have done in the situation but probably most folks would have done far less!  And why do I say that.......just stories I know of things that have happened to myself and friends. 

So over the past few days I've had several conversations about this situation.  Some of my friends gave me examples of things that happened to them when they were younger.  Inappropriate  things happened to a lot of us.  My husband and I both had other children who tried to touch us, neither of us told on the kids but we both avoided them from then on.  One of the kids who attempted to touch me was two years younger but much more mature in that area than me.  Another friend had an older brother's friend who exposed himself to her and had her touch him.  I had another friend tell me that she and some of the neighborhood boys used to play "doctor" , most of the kids were older than she was.   It happens.  It happens to families who go to church and who don't go to church.  That doesn't make it right, but we need to look at it realistically. 

At 12-14 kids are going through puberty, anything sexual is exciting and they want to know all about it.  And yes some kids do things that are just plain out wrong.  But their lives should not be forever ruined because of it!

Now I'm not a big Duggar fan.  In fact I've been told I'm quite mean about that family.  I don't like how they portray Christianity with all their man made legalistic rules.  I was raised with a lot of rules and broke away from that.  I really do not like the patriarchal leadership- where the woman is expected to marry young after "courting" , have little education, use no birth control, have tons of children, at home, not allowed to work a real job, have to have long hair and wear a dress....etc.....   I HATE all of that nonsense. 

However having said all of that, I do believe they try and serve God and do what they feel is right.  I feel the parents dealt with this over 12 years ago and it should not have been brought up again!  In fact I feel that whoever leaked this to the media should be fired if they work for the government and should be sued.  Like it or not, juvenile records are sealed. 

I just hate the hypocrisy of all the media frenzy and the people who jump in and say absolutely stupid things.  My favorite is "well they are just hypocrites- look at them going to church and their son touched girls"   OMG what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  So if I live as a Christian, I am then condemned if one of my kids does something wrong???? 

 I hate to tell you but the majority of folks reading this blog right now have some type of "sex offender" in their family.  Maybe not in their home, but an uncle or a cousin or someone that everyone stays away from because you've heart things about him.  I had a great uncle that touched me quite inappropriately when I was a young teen.   He only did it once because I stayed the heck away from him from then on out!  I told a few family members once I was in college and they were like "yeah he is like that"  What the HECK?  Why didn't someone tell me as a young girl? 

And don't think it just happens in the south.....I have had people tell me things like that from every walk of life. 

With our boys, I've never worried about "stranger danger" too much.  But I've worried about the people they come in contact with day to day.  Jon and I both had people do things or try to do things to us we did not want them to do but we knew the people.   Most of the sex offender cases I saw over my 13 years dealt with people who knew each other, not the dreaded man in the ice cream truck grabbing a kid.  We've always taught our boys that no one should touch them where their bathing suits go.  We explained that to them when they were really young in a easy way for them to understand, because there is nothing wrong with a pat on the back from someone, but a pat on the bottom would not be good.  Over the years, I've asked them each questions to make sure nothing happened when they were at other people's houses.  And we've always told them they can tell us things and we will not get mad at them. 

With our "little ones' we can't teach them things like that so we keep them close to us.  We now have a babysitter but this is the first time ever we've had one.  Over the years we've left Sam a handful of times for a few hours at the most with people we totally trusted. 

When we got the girls home from Ukraine, we had our doctor check them for any signs of sexual abuse and he saw none.  We were not as worried about Shad since there were only female nannies and all the children in his area were young.  With the girls, there were older teen boys in the same room as Sarah so that scared me to death.  Obviously they were handicapped but one boy was often nude and was fully mature.  I worried that he might abuse Sarah.  The doctor saw no signs of trauma and neither girl acted afraid of being touched or bathed.

I've chosen not to have male nurses with Selah because I just do not want that issue.  she is maturing and I'd rather a woman take care of her.  I know people will say that women can be sexual abusers too but it is so rare compared to males.

Anyhow.....I think this whole hoopla is just that...a big hoopla.  IF Josh Duggar was continuing in his sin then expose him and send him straight to prison.  But I do not believe that is the case.  I believe he repented and learned self control.  He was honest with his now wife Anna when they were "dating" and told her and her family about this so they'd know.  How hard that must have been for him to do but it's so freeing for him to do that.   He shouldn't have lost his job over this.  That's ridicules.  It's not like he was working as a nursery school teacher and there was some concern from parents.  He was working some type of lobbying job, I think children were safe from him.

The world is going to act absolutely nutso stupid if anyone that claims the name of Jesus is found not to be as perfect as He is..... but that is just it, no one is perfect.

I bet NO ONE reading this would like everyone to know everything they've ever done, even while they were a child.  I know I sure ain't going to be sharing all with ya!    For the record, I've never molested any child.  But there are other things I'd be quite embarrassed about if ALL of my past came out.  Maybe it's stuff that wouldn't embarrass you but it sure would ME! 

But as a Christian, I've taken all my sins to the cross, I've asked God for forgiveness and I've made it right with any people I've offended by my sins.  None of my sins were crimes but you might be shocked at them as I might be shocked at yours. 

So I've read some comments to some online articles about the Duggars and I think some folks would like to see Josh Duggar locked up for life, sent to the electric chair along with his family.  It's crazy!

What else I've found that makes me laugh a little is a few folks who were big Duggar fans and now they are up in arms calling for his head.  I think it is funny that I'm somewhat defending him and I don't' even like him! LOL  Some folks go with whatever people around them say without thinking things through for themselves. 

Bottom line, I think his family dealt with this a long time ago and it's beyond old news.  he was open with the people who needed to know, and none of us needed to know about it.  He has gone on to make the right choices in life as far as we know.  Leave him alone and in leaving him alone, the victims are also left alone.  The victims who seem to have forgive him also. 

Now I'll sit back and get all the comments about how hyprocritical I am for defending him and how he needs to have the death penalty etc etc etc......


  1. Totally disagree with your whole post but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Find it very interesting that your last sentence may be hiding some underlying feelings. i will pray that ALL of your children do not suffer the fate of the Duggar girls and they may get the help that will allow them to heal.

    1. I'm not sure what last sentence you are referring to? None of my children have ever been molested that we know of and are very thankful for that. I don't ever want to see that happen to any of my children by an adult or by a child. We take steps to insure it does not happen to our kids.

  2. I agree 100%, even with the fact that I too, was never a huge fan of the show or how they choose to do things, but I don't think they're "bad" people at all. (Quite the opposite, actually.) As far as being on TV, I think they should have done what the Duck Dynasty family did, which was to let the entire world know how they were before becoming Christians...(Bad, bad, bad. lol!)There's never been any new 'hidden secrets' broadcast, because they were totally upfront from the beginning. What this young man did is sickening but I have to say too, that odds are, if you have more than one child, (especially 19), you're going to have 'at least' one that goes against the grain of what you've tried to teach them. Whole thing is sad for the innocent girls and for his wife /children/ all involved.

    1. Yes Duck Dynasty does not seem to have any secrets LOL but that is very good. There is nothing that anyone can say about them that they haven't already said. Even the one son who is a minister has been very open about some marriage problems they had. It is refreshing

  3. I have to disagree. The parents did not take him to the police until years passed. The man they took him to is in prison for being a pedophile so maybe that's why the officer didn't pursue the matter. Whether or not a person believes in the power of Gods grace or forgiveness, you still have to be accountable for your actions. Josh Dugger works to say Gays are a danger to children just because of their sexual orientation. Actions cause danger and he did dangerous, hurtful things to people. God may forgive him, but I don't need to see him on TV

  4. First years did not pass before the dad took him in. I'm not sure of the time frame but it was not years. Second when the dad took him in- he did not know what the outcome would be. The family knew there could be consequences & if they didn't want to have a record of it they could have just not gone in.

    He was 14 years old what do u think should have happened to him or should happen to him now?

    All I can say is people sure don't want to show any mercy to a person who sinned as a young teen but who has seemed to live an upright life for many years I think it's beca he has taken a stand on issues. Doesn't make him wrong on the stand he has taken

  5. Molestation can ruin the girl's life FOREVER. Why should he not be held accountable for his actions? At 14 he should have known right from wrong! People are saying it was a mistake - no, it happened FIVE TIMES so it was a lot more than a mistake.

  6. Thank you for this interesting viewpoint especially since you have worked in the criminal justice system. I read another blog where the writer believes that Josh should be executed and was claiming that she could identify if someone was a Christian or not. I THANK GOD that she is not in charge of that! Last I checked we are all humans and all sin so none of us are perfect and we are not to judge others. Perhaps I am wrong?! I pray that none of this woman's kids make a mistake, bad choice or sin because she might have them executed?!

    Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your viewpoint!

    1. LOL I'd hate for that woman to come after me!

  7. He did it from ages 14-17, not 12 and it was much more than one occasion. I read the report and one charge would have been a felony(forced fondling). His parents sent him to no counseling, they sent him for 4 months of house remodeling. One of the victims was 5yrs old. It is not normal for a teen that age to touch a child that young. The cop they took him to for a "stern talk" is a convicted pedophile. He escaped consequence because the statue of limitations passed so because the pedophile cop didn't file charges like he should have. He speaks of the danger of homosexuals to families while he was molesting his own sisters. I have no sympathy for him.

    1. you are not correct in the age of Josh when this happened. In fact I've never seen any age over 14 being quoted by anyone else. I've also not seen the ages of the other children. The family took him in and made sure a police report was done. They had NO control over what happened after that.

      As far as Josh speaking "of the danger of homosexuals to families while he was molesting his own sisters"......I didn't know he was working for that Christian company while he was 14 years old! Are you saying he is still molesting his sisters? Please don't confuse the issue. He was a 14 year old boy when that happened, he repented and moved on. he is now a 27 year old who has conservative Christian beliefs, MAYBE because of his past he is more sensitive about staying pure!

  8. I felt I must comment again because I feel bad that I said I have no sympathy for him. That is not true. I do have sympathy because he is a human and all humans make mistakes. My issue is he has not dealt with the consequences of this crime. He needs intense counseling and he has never received it. I also find it interesting that many of the people supporting him have double standards. For instance, Mike Huckabee, who is a family friend of theirs has come out in support of him and even ordered the file destroyed, yet just recently spoke out against the type of music the Obama's allow their daughters to listen to. So listening to certain types of rap music is bad, but inappropriate sexual behavior is not? Double standard.

    1. Well if you want to follow the law, a juvenile's record should have never been opened to the public. You'd probably be shocked if you knew everyone around you juvenile record or secret sins. Again this happened way over a decade ago, he repented, did have some consequences.. It was shared with others at the time and Josh shared it with his inlaws..... EVEN if he had been prosecuted and given the very harshest punishment at the time, it would be a done deal now and should have never been made public per the United States law and the law of Arkansas. I guess we could try and get the death penalty.....

      As far as Huckabee- he is only upholding the law of his state. That does not mean he can't have opinions on music. I do not think he thinks what Josh did was "ok" but he is mature enough to know this public outcry is just a cover for attacking Christian families. It is ridiculous.

  9. I am glad Im not the only one who thinks this whole thing was blown way out of proportion! Its just a way for the media to make some money.

  10. I usually agree with you on most issues, but on this, I have to respectfully disagree. It's stunning to me just how reflexively most Christians are coming to Josh's defense without much regard to his victims. Minimizing his actions (e.g claiming he was only 12-13 yet the police reports indicate he was molessting his siblings and a friend from age 14-17), and claiming it may have been mutual exploration when the youngest victim was only 5 years old. I feel like I'm in an alternate universe when sane, logical people don't see a problem with 14-17 year olds touching their siblings' breasts and genitals on multiple occasions with the youngest victim being only 5 years old. You can't honestly tell me at 14, Steve would not have known better. If that's the standard we have for 14 year old "Christian" boys, then the world is a lot worse than I even thought! A lot of Christians don't seem to understand what the big deal is. Maybe 14-17 year olds boys molesting 5 year olds in their sleep is a Southern thing and so common that it's not a big deal?

    I have never watched the show, but it just saddened me how quickly Christians were coming to the perpetrator's defense without much regard for the victims. As Christians we have to call evil, evil even when it's committed by a fellow Christian.

    The victims will live with this forever, no take backs, no do-overs....even though they may forgive as Christ has called them to do. I believe we are called to forgive, but we sure don't have to celebrate a reality TV show simply because it's purportedly a Christian family. And we don't all have to parrot the same FOX arguments when defending the indefensible. For me, I prefer to direct my empathy and sympathy to the real victims- imagine having to re-live the nightmare in the public's eye. And the horror of living with the offender in the same house for three years as he continued to offend. obviously, the parents did not do such a great job protecting their daughters when they originally found out Josh was molessting them.

    I think you are trying to re-writie history or did not read the full report - I read all 30 plus pages of the report and the family never took Josh to the police station! They took him to a family friend who just happened to be a state trooper for a stern talking to! If you read the report, they refused to take Josh to the police station when Oprah's show brought the situation to light in 2006 and CPS was involved. Instead, they lawyered up, though two attorneys refused to represent Josh.

    I've seen pastors and people I respected get really mean spirited, combative, vicious and verbally abusive when fellow Christians take a different stance on this issue. Its mind boggling the emotional energy people are expending defending a stranger accused of heinous crimes.

  11. I did not read trhat police report. The only thing I saw was a police report with very little info on it. It looked official but I've not heard the ages that you've heard or the details you have heard from any news organizations. Are you sure what you saw was true? BTW I've not seen this reported on FOX news the news I saw it on was another channel.

    There's a huge difference between a 17 year old & a 14 year old. I'd like for you to email me those reports theclanton5@aol.com. I've never seen anything in the news like that

    I have thought about this & I think emotionally he was young for his age with the way he was raised. That does not justify him but it helps to explain him

    I do feel bad for the girls. I don't know what happened but I do know kids do things like this.

    If one of my kids did something like this I would d al with it differently but I worked with this & have more experience with it & the help that can be found.

    I still think you have to look at the fact he was a teen & I believe a early teen There is no state in the USA that would continue the punishment on him to this day. iF there is proof he is still doing something or has done something since being an adult then he should be punished

  12. And I don't appreciate the remark about molesting girls in their sleep as a Southren thing. Unfortunately every culture has that in it to about the same degree per all the statistics I know of. Just because someone disagrees on the media crucifying someone for what they did as a juvenile first mean I agree with what Josh did!

  13. Yvonne, I agree with your post! Even though we home schooled for 15 plus years with the same organization (ATI) as the Duggars did, we never idolized them. We never watched the TV series, but my children bought a couple DVDs with episodes from the series. They enjoyed watching the things the family did and the fun they had and how they managed things with a family over twice the size of ours. I always felt that some day one or more of their kids was going to rebel and choose a much more liberal lifestyle. When this came out all over the news, I was saddened... not because I was shocked... not because a perfect Christian family had fallen... I was saddened because all this was drug out and exposed to the world, 10 years after it happened and was dealt with the best they knew how at the time, and now people all over the world are criticizing, judging, and lambasting Josh and his parents... he felt he had to resign from his job... the family lost their TV show... all over something that is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!!! And are we so dumbed-down in America that we actually BELIEVE everything we read and everything we hear regarding the Duggars, or anything else for that matter?!?!?! I realize there is so much HATE out there toward anything Christian or anything to do with Christianity. So, it is to be expected that atheists and hardened sinners and the like would be spewing out their venom toward this sincere Christian family and twisting the truth and exaggerating the facts. But I am appalled that people who claim to be Christians are BARBEQUING those who are our own brothers and sisters in CHRIST!!! And claiming to CARE about the girls who were victims... THIS is WORSE than the original crime, because those girls are being daily EXPOSED and RAPED by the media and by social media!!! If we truly CARE about those girls, we will KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT about them and show our support to them and their WHOLE family and let them know we are PRAYING FOR THEM!!! Must Christ be crucified again for Josh Duggar?!?!?! GOD FORBID!!! IT IS FINISHED!!!JESUS CHRIST PAID ONCE AND FOR ALL for ALL Josh's sins, past, present, and future, and for ALL MY SINS!!! GOD has GOT THIS!!! And I plan to spend all eternity with Josh and his parents and as many of the family who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and all the blood-washed scoundrels of the Old and New Testament and down through the ages celebrating the LOVE and MERCY and GRACE of OUR GREAT GOD!!!